Rhythm Games Vs. Music Games
Losermanwins
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Late last year a discussion was cropping up around a twitter poll that was sweeping the rhythm game community. In the end it boiled down to one question : Is Beat Saber not a rhythm game? Well, we’ll have to find out which games are rhythm games and which games are music games then!
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30.01.2023
To get 115 you have to hit the block to the beat. and get 100D before and after is 60D and hit in the middle for the extra 15 and has to also needs to be hit to the beat to get an extra 1 as i used a bot to see a perfect slice from a later area and it gives 114.now you think that why?but all of our vet's know that when you move forward the blocks will move with you. but when you swing You still have to time that swing to get 1 point. then 100D and 60D to get the 100 thats 101 but then in middle swing will give 14 not 15. so timing dose matter as if i could also shine some light on that on my main channel but for now my mans right it remains the BEST music game out there but if my theory is right then its 100% a rythem game ngl im fuckin dead now ☠
Beatsaber is a rythym game, you play to the rhythm. Geometry dash is a music game, you have music playing while playing and it might relate to the level. Pretty simple stuff imo.
time dependence is a big part of Beat Saber's scoring if you wish to get higher than 90%. There are whole papers written on this, and I would suggest reading through some if you want to know more.
As an avid beat saber player, I need to inform you of an important mechanic in Beat Saber. While not specifically listed as an intended feature of the game, because of the way the game scores notes a term literally called time dependency does exist. I am not very smart so I can't explain it fully, but essentially If you do mistime the notes even by a little, it does affect your score. Not sure how this changes your opinion, but just felt like saying it. I think this is why most beat saber players get mad when people say there is no timing based scoring in the game, because it is, simply just as a hidden bi-product of the intended game mechanics.
I really don't think granular rhythm judgement vs no granular judgement is a good way to determine whether a game is or isn't a rhythm game. A miss is still a judgement of your timing, and in almost all the supposed "music games" mentioned, you still have to perform to the rhythm of a beatmap in order to succeed at the game. Whether a game is more or less lenient or granular doesn't mean it somehow isn't in the same closely related family of games.
I think a "music game" that wouldn't be a rhythm game would be something that doesn't necessarily have a music chart you're prescribed to follow. Rez, Wii Music, De Blob, Korg DS-10, Otocky, and MTV Music Generator come to mind.
i didnt expect phigros to be mentioned, so i was suprised when it popped up! its definitely my favorite among mobile rhythm games.
I was really expecting Rocksmith to fall on the music game side lmao. Ig I never thought too deeply about judgement mechanics in games that don't have them
To make it clear, Geometry dash is not a rhythm game
All rhythm game is music game.I think a better way to separate them is by looking at the average levels. Are most of the maps on rhythm or are the music just there to vibe
I would have looooooved to hear at the end of the video "exept geometry dash"
A point with Groove Coaster's hidden notes (AD-LIBs) – they aren't hit/miss judged, they still follow the judgement system of the regular notes.
Welcome back!
I've been saying this for years. great video!
So… where would Hi-Fi Rush fall in?
thank you SO SO much for this video!! this really needed to be explained lmao
8:27 gave me a seizure im not sure i dont remember
Reminds me there was a game “Mad Maestro!” on PS2 which not only gives timing judgement but also gives judgement based on if correct amount of force is used when hitting button (or swinging the conducting wand) (and yes PS2 controller actually knows how much force is used to press the buttons )
Very well made video, this is a complex topic to tackle and we really enjoyed how you defined all of the terms involved! We couldn't help but notice one thing though… why don't you follow us on twitter?
Oh shit he's back LET'S GOOO
Let's gooo!!!
so early that the only quality selection is 360p
Personally, I used the term Konami made for some of their PS1 games: music simulation game. This would be for games where you're given the verisimilitude of being a DJ, a dancer, drumist, etc. This would distinguish from games that use rhythmic elements like Rhythm Heaven and Rhythm Thief and the like. These would not factor the more casual timings from stricter timed series like Rock Band vs GITADORA, nor does it account for games akin to music sim titles that are not simulating anything or are a mix of both in some respect (REFLEC BEAT, Osu!…), but that's been my subgenres.
It is extremely funny that this video releases on the day that Hi-Fi RUSH, a action game with a rhythm mechanic, suddenly released hahahaha
i’m happy youre back!! i had to do a takeback just to make sure this wasnt an old video i forgot to watch😅
by god how do you keep a straight face for 15 seconds for that intro
This doesn't really make a lot of sense honestly. You give a definition that most people would agree with, a game in which you do inputs in time to music, reject that definition with a completely arbitrary one requiring a timing system, then realize your definition has holes when it doesnt include Beat Saber and Guitar Hero, and so you say it has to do with whether the developer intended for you to be in time to music. That essentially just brings you back to the original definition you gave at the start, so what is even the point of this video?
Im quite curious if something like geometry dash counts as a music game at all
Game dev here. The technicalities is borderline near the dreaded Rogue like vs Rogue lite vs Actual Rouge like genre problems, or heck even the new souls like debacle.
An idea I think Dance Games should be added to this Music/Rhythm genre to fix this more.
I can see the so-called rhythm games are more of playing an instrument of the music than dancing to it.
Note: Im just a casual player of the genre but still a fan specially as a dev. This discussion is very interesting.
Heres my argument. I'm surprised BS doesnt have rhythm judgement. But that being said if accuracy and flow to the form like Just Dance and so on is a rhythm game. BS should be a rhythm game.
But as you stated JD and DC is borderline rhythm game, and its unfair to have it called a music game right next to Tetris effect and so on.
That being said VR games like BS, Synthrider, Pistolwhip, and heck Ring Fit are more akin to Dancing than playing to the music like an instrument.
Also an interesting one to add to the discussion is Dance Rush. I dont play the game but I find it interesting that it has tournaments that has a judge in it.
Ahhh I've been working on something about this topic for a while! What a great idea for a vid
Bust a groove says it's a rhythm game but with this definition it's a music game hmmm
I AM SO FUCKING EXCITED ABOUT YOU TALKING ABOUT AUDITION please be nice to it my little sister and i bonded over it because she was never into rythym games but i was and we both were pretty okay at audition… i'd play it again in a heartbeat
actually a new 'rhythm' game just dropped over on XBOX, hi-fi rush! a new action-platform game from the director of resident evil it has a cel-shaded anime look right out of jet set radio, and the combat you're rewarded for matching up with the beat of the music it's a very interesting one! the practice mode that teaches you the combo system even has early/late/miss judgements.
being wishy washy about a definition doesn't help anything. Who cares what the devs intended when you have a good definition already.
rhythm game = music game with judgements (more than just hit/miss, as said in the video)
that's it.
if beat saber and guitar hero are just music games, who cares? The word used to define the game genre shouldn't influence whether people find it fun or not, or whether they should be playing it.